I just got back in town today and found that three of my checkerboard cichlids and one of my two golden rams were dead.

I tested the water - perfect.

I had noticed that my german rams had colored up & I had seen them acting more aggressive. I figured they'd paired up and become territorial. I'll be taking the surviving gold ram and checkerboard back to my LFS tomorrow so they don't get killed. (sad - but I'd rather they live)

So anyway, I did a big ol waterchange since the 55 is also my discus tank. Later tonight, I noticed at least 100 eggs in the spot where the german rams hang out. Blew me away. They spawned.

They take turns guarding the eggs, fanning them, and chasing off any fish that gets too close. Even the discus are keeping their distance.

In a few days the eggs will hatch. My concern is that the rams will either hurt the discus defending the young - or the discus will eat all the fry.

I know rams are good, attentive parents. My question is when can I seperate the young from the parents? Do I need to seperate the parents from each other at any point?

Here're my possible fry headquarters as it stands now...

1) Leave them in the 55g with the discus
2) Put them in a 10g with baby bristlenose plecos
3) Put them in a 20g with young angels (not my first choice!)
4) Put the angels in with the discus temporarily & give the fry
the 20
5) Temporarily put up another 10g for the fry

Sheesh. Someone give me a simple answer please. (Not holding my breath for a simple solution - but would appreciate one!)

Thanks

I didn't get anywhere with my ram spawns, as they were too small for me. Fishy has had more successful experience with them.

You didn't say what they spawned on? You could possibly move a rock and parents together.

I'm wondering if they're at one end of the tank. A possibility is to rush out for a sheet of perspex (clear plastic), cut to the width and depth of tank, drill a few circulation holes through it, and partition off one end of the tank. You may not even need it full height, just enough to prevent predators getting over the top.

You could slowly drag a rock to one end, and the parents follow and attack your hand.

Or raise them separate. Use a mesh hanging enclosure, in the same tank, so you don’t have any water quality hassles.

Hmmm.

Maybe. But now they're being jerks to my discus. That could be the end of the rams...no matter how cool looking they are.

i dont have time to go into detail just now. i'll try n do a better reply later.

quickly tho, when u say german rams do u mean blue rams or is it a different kind? i have a little experience with blues.

regarding tanks i'd be tempted to go for answer no5, altho this does have drawbacks. u'd need to fill it with tank water from the spawning tank and it may suffer from a bit of new tank syndrome which wont help the eggs.

if it's blue rams and answer no.5 is possible, i'd move the parents to this tank too.

i'll get back to this later when i have time. good luck meantime.

Fishy - yeah - German Blue.

Thanks for the help, but here's how it panned out.

After losing three checkerboards, one gold ram, having my discus harassed, and now a missing baby Royal Panaque, I have no room for these guys.

I'll be sooooo pissed if my Royal is dead!!!!!!!!

Anyway - I gave the pair to a friend. We have a simple rule in my house - you hurt a discus or a pleco and you're freakin' history.

So now they'll have their own small tank where they can be a-holes to each other all they want.

The only bright spot - since thanks to the rams I now have at least 12" of fish gone from my tank, I had room for more discus. So I bought a baby White Diamond...

And the eggs ??

Still in my tank.

I wasn't about to give up a $30 piece of african rootwood. Still watching the eggs

hope you find your L190 which might take a while at the size it is unless you are prepared to take the tank apart

Won't the eggs just end up as Discus food ?

You've nothing left to protect them.

Given I now know they're on wood, I would probably have tried partitioning. And now, without the parents, I'd go for a hanging enclosure.

But it just occurs to me, you don't plan to save them ?

i now have one male blue ram left who has been the father to several batches of eggs/fry. i have had 2 females lay eggs, one survives. the male i have is a great father and much more attentive than his deceased brother was. the female i now have is a better mother too than the previous one. the better male father is the less agressive of the 2 i had but he will still defend the eggs as best he can. the current mother seems to be better in that she too looks after the fry where as the previous mother seemed to lose interest when the fry hatched.

i am a little surprised to think that one of ur rams, Gary, could have killed ur discus and gold ram. although the blues are aggressive to nest invaders i wouldnt have thought it would have been enough aggression to kill the other fish, but i could be wrong.

i dont think there is any harm in seperating the male and female ram parents from the eggs as soon as they hatched but i like to leave them till they show signs of losing interest. recently i havent had much luck with the fry though. they seem to get to a few days old and almost all die at the same time. i'm not sure what im doing wrong and dont really have time or space to try n fix things just now. my rams seem to breeding every 2 weeks or so at the moment but no fry have survived from recent batches. i may try and remove the eggs from a subsequent batch and see if i can raise them in a seperate tank as i did with some success before.

i hope all your other fish are well n ok including ur plec. again i could be wrong but i would be surprised to learn that the blue rams killed the discus and golden rams. i know u said u checked water parameters and all seems well, but i suggest u keep a close eye on things incase there is another factor that caused ur recent loses.

Nick:

They didn't kill a discus. They were going at them pretty hard as I watched, though.

I'm 99% sure the gold ram & chekerboards were killed by them. I saw them sparring all the time. Not just your normal cichlid sparring either - more aggressive.

Kana:

Right. I can't save them. Not with my current space. I just can't right now. I hate it but that's the way it goes.

Still no sign of my Royal either.

I didn't comment earlier, but your little white Discus is a fine looking fish, in a sort of Bart Simpson-ish sort of way!

Hah - I get it. The spikey hair thing.

You opened up a can of worms now, my friend. You are talking to quite possibly the biggest Simpson fan ever here. (Did you notice Blinky in my Avatar?)

back to fish talk...

The little White Diamond is about 2.5" or so and is getting the normal cichlid new guy treatment. His first 24 hours were spent hiding behind driftwood. He's slowly starting to venture out from time to time - then gets chased back to his corner.

I was actually talked into buying him by my LFS lady. I've learned to take her advice. She's always right. She suggested that a White Diamond would be a cool contrast to the colors I already had, making them all stand out more. Plus, she said, if I didn't like him, I could grow him out and trade him back bigger at a higher price.

She knew what she was saying. He's not going back. He does make everyone in there look brighter. Definately a keeper.

i had noticed blinky and had ment to mention it but forgot, DOH!

i am actualy watching the simpsons as i type this. my day wouldnt be complete without my simpsons fix. they are funny on so many levels. one thing i love and watch out for is all the references to movies old and new.

i do like the look of your new discus and if ur to name it i think Kana's suggestion has to be a good one

discus are a bit out of my budget just now, i have too many other bills to worry about but maybe if i can get my angels and/or corys to breed successfully and build up some credit with my LFS i might get some in the future.